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  1. #1
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    29.09.2009
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    Guide to work as MD in Germany .Part I
    This Guide in principle is for medical students and Physicians who finish their study of Medicine in non-EU Countries who wish to work and do post-graduate Degree in Germany and based solely on my personal experience as MD graduated from Iraq,that is why it could be not suitable for everyone but may be beneficial.
    1- The Language
    the German Language is very difficult one, even if you have the capabilities to master English or French,still German language is difficult and one of the reasons is the big difference between spoken and written daily usage of the language,you should be
    very talented to acquire good level(B2) to work as Doctor.I get level B2 in 10 months. but to be competent in communication skills and understanding (some Dialect) you need more than this.
    personally i live in Germany since 02.02.2008 but still after nearly 20 months feels sometime difficulties when it comes to writing or documentation in work,so before everything else you should learn the Language efficiently before thinking in working in Germany.
    you should also learn the Medical German Language because the pronunciation and writing in work is little bit different from English or other Languages.
    There are many ways to learn the languages in addition to books and school and give you some tips:
    a- try to watch some German TV series with subtitle in German(through Teletext) you will learn many words in short time and also learn how the German communicate with each others.

    b- get a German girlfriend.
    c- think German: try to reset your Brain-HD to think like a German and be full confident of yourself even if you make mistakes at beginning
    use any method to learn the language very fast because its the only difference between you and a German Doctor,and when you will be able to master the language there will be no one could make a comment on your communication skills rather than your work.
    in the next parts I will talk about my personal experience and impression about German medical authorities,German medical License , German medical system, Private institutes which teach integration for doctors from outside Germany and many things more...
    So Stay in Touch and watch my subsequent parts in this Guide.


    Doctors will have more lives to answer for in the next world than even we generals.
    Napoleon Bonaparte


    Part 2
    Guide to work as MD in Germany.Part 2
    As I write in the first part after you finish B2 level in Language in Goethe Institute or in any other institute (Euro-schule..VHS etc) you need to master German medical language which need about 15 days and there is wonderful book called(Medizinische Fachsprache leicht gemacht) it’s very cheap and very beneficial and I used personally and you could buy it from Amazon website and its intended for Physicians who want to work in Germany.
    Once you feel that your capabilities in language is good regarding Verbal communication and you are able to express yourself clearly and you could use the German medical terms in average way(still you could use sometimes in matter of difficulty English medical terms) then you are fit for the next step.

    You should start to read about German medical system…there is a lot of articles in English in Wikipedia which throw very good spotlight about this issue like:
    1-Medical Insurance
    2-types of hospitals
    3-medical hierarchy
    4-medical specialization
    5-Hospital finance
    You could also postpone these information later if you do not have enough time.
    Once you have the legal status to stay In Germany whether Through marriage, Asylum , immigration or a Study exchange program then you should contact (
    Landesgesundheitsamt)Depend on where you live, In which state in Germany( there are16 State) and get information about the requirement to get a permission which is usually limited to work as( Arzt) it’s called beruf-erlaubnis and it’s different from Arbeit erlaubnis, and there are many differences between each state in Germany.
    For example I live in Baden-Württemberg and its considered to be one of difficult states of Germany because the requirement to work, that you should be examined in one of Universities in 4 main branches in Medicine (Internal Medicine and Surgery (obligatory) and two additional branch) in my case Pathology and Pharmacology but some time you my get Medical chemistry or Medical statics
    And this is called Gleichwertigskeitprüfumg.
    In some other states like Bayern for example you do not need to do this examination,it depends on the official person who will decide to give you this permission or not and there are no guidelines for these officials to decide which one deserve permission based on his medical qualification and which one do not deserve because he or she lacks the equivalent German medical Standard.
    Still a lot of doctors who finish their study outside EU choose to settle in Bayern because it’s easy way to get work there in Rehabilitation Centrum or elsewhere because of fear from the examination (you have only 2-time chance to perform this examination, and if you failed you will never be able to work in Germany as M.D) personally I prefer the BW system because if you pass this exam you will be equal to any M.D graduated from German Medical university.
    Still in Bayern you need to do this examination in order to get approbation to get unlimited permission to work for life as M.D and this also applied to all other states in Germany.
    I will write complete chapter about how to prepare yourself for this examination optimally but for now I will write about my biggest failure which cost me 6 month medical doctors to Germany delay before I get my first Job and this is the private Institute to prepare and integrate immigrating
    It always seems impossible until it’s done.
    Nelson Mandela


    Guide to work as MD in Germany.Part 3
    This part is about my personal experience in private institute which offer service like integration and preparing Non-EU MD to find their way to work in the medical field in Germany as physicians, Surgeon, nurses or pharmacist etc…
    This is absloute personal experience
    In 2008 after finishing 3 months non-paid work as( Gast-Arzt in Chirurgie in MVZ in BW) and in order to prepare myself for the Gleichwertigskeit Prüfung , I started to look for private institute to develop my language communication skills and better understanding of the medical German system and after short surfing in internet, I found 2 institute:
    1-http://www.mibeg.de/ in Sachsenring 37–39
    50677 Köln


    2-http://www.via-institut.de/ in Nürnberg
    I read both websites and all information and services they offer, and then I ask some people about both institutes and mostly they recommend mibeg in Köln.
    Still I take the stupid decision to go to Nürnberg why?
    a-Because I have 2 sisters who live in Nürnberg and both offer me accommodation and free hot meals, and all the 5 stars service for hotels. (Mama-Hotel)
    b-I was mistaken because I thought that since both institute are licensed from government in each state then there will be no difference in the standard of education and that was completely wrong.
    So I choose the Via-institute based on these 2 facts. I send E-mail to the Institute Director about my request to join his Institute and he replied very nicely and send me all information through E-mail and invite me to a meeting with other students from different nationalities for Info-tag(information day) before the beginning of course which consist of 2 modules
    (2month plus 3 months) you could see the information on his website.
    I contact the work-Agent in my region (Arbeit-Agentur) and they were very nice and they accept to finance all the cost of the private institute whatever I choose in order to get a job as (Arzt) as soon as possible although I do not receive any financial support from the German authorities and they pay all the financial requirement to the institute and the study begin.
    The first Module 2 months:
    About 30 students from 7 nationalities with different level of language skills and different medical standard in small room equipped with a beamer which is most of the time is defected and an old notebook belong to the Ice Age.
    The lectures divided between German medical language, German language, and how to write your C.V and how to apply for a Job.
    For the German medical language it was very primitive non structural and waste of time for nothing you could substitute it with the book for German medical language which I mentioned it in Part 2 of this Guide and I am sure every normal average physician could master the whole German medical language in matter of 2 weeks if he read the book for 2 hours a day.
    The German language lecture (in which the institute offer the ability to prepare for B2 level)
    Was one of the worst I ever had, I learned the language in what is called (volkshochschule) VHS and I get B1 levelbefore I joined the Institute and it was 100 times better than the lectures in this institute.
    The worst part was how to write CV and how to apply for Job and the strategy in applying for job and the job interview etc…
    The director of institute used about 20% of the time in both modules (5 months everyday approximatly 8 hours ) to give us lectures about this theme although to get a medical job in Germany is very easy if you are qualified enough and have similar standard to German doctors and there are many readymade formula which you could easily modified it to fit your individual case(i did it personally and get a job from the first interview), it was more than 80 hours of talk, and the reason for this lengthy lectures was not because it’s so difficult but because it was just time filling procedure because hiring a professional medical lecturer in the important fields(like Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics and Gynecology..etc) which you will need it in your preparation for the Exam or start work will cost the institute more money and at end it will decrease the income of institute.
    And you could imagine 80 hours for what is called CV writing, job application and 4 hours only 4 hours for Gynecology and may be less as I remember.
    More than 90 % of us as students regarding the fee of institute was paid by work-agent which means we did not pay any cent for the institute personally (including me) but still its painful not only regarding the money but also the time I wasted personally in this institute and the problem I realized these facts only after I was engaged in the second module.
    I understand every learning process (although I came from a Third world country) as process of active opinion exchange when it comes to positive criticism between the students and the lecturer.
    In the case of institute director it was very different, he takes a very criticism personally and he will not response friendly when someone ask him question like I ask him one day when he was talking about how successful his institute is , if he has statistics regarding this matter? because as he mentioned that he supply many hospitals with doctors who graduated from his institute, he tries to escape the answer but I insist if he has a numbers…numbers(cause I believe in numbers) he react angrily and change the subject.
    One of the shocking thing which happened to me and may be to other students that one of the lecturer bring her Dog with to the lecture room, it was a nice dog and personally I like dogs but not in the lecture room, Do you believe it???
    It will give you an example about how serious some lecturers!!!!
    But to be Objective there were 4 lecturers although they have may be only 12 hours, they were nice and competent.
    the second module was also not very good as he promise and personally I started not to attend the rest of his lectures about CV writing…also I did not go with groups where he often used one whole day to make a trip to the old city of Nürnberg , visiting Reha-Centrum
    Or visiting Pharma-industery… etc waste of time.
    Naturally all (except one for personal reason)of us graduated from his institute, no one could not pass both exams in both modules and the question is how many of us will be able to pass the (Gleichwertigskeitprüfung)and how many will get works and when? I do not know!!!
    Personally I was successfully pass the Gleichwertigskeitprüfung after the end of the VIA course in 3 months and I did not get any benefit from the course when I estimate the time which I spend it in this course, and I am only thankful for these 4 lecturers because I get from them in 12 hours which is more worth than approximately 600 hours of nothing.
    My advice is : I do not recommend this institute for any non EU or even EU medical doctors who wish to prepare himself to work as doctor in Germany.
    P.S if you need further information about my personal experience in this institute feel free to mail me
    I will write a complete article about this institute in Arabic, German and Russian languages for other colleagues who do not understand English.
    And I will ask my 2 friends to inform me about mibeg institute in köln because they have both a positive experience about it, then they could help.

    one last thing if someone did not study medicine or health science , I do not believe he or she will be able to run any institue teaching medicine or anything close to medicine.
    “Medicine makes people ill, mathematics makes them sad, and theology makes them sinful”


    Martin Luther



  2. #2
    Registrierter Benutzer
    Registriert seit
    07.11.2009
    Beiträge
    14
    Thank you for share this information Vidoco.

    I will get my MD soon and I hope can get a job as Assistenzarzt in Cardiologie.
    I already copy your post and save it as my reference.

    regards
    Vallentino.



  3. #3
    Registrierter Benutzer
    Registriert seit
    27.11.2009
    Beiträge
    2
    Zitat Zitat von Vidoco Beitrag anzeigen
    You do not need to quote a full text just to leave an emailadress.
    Hello Doctor thanks for your kindness to everyone here, my email address is : [email protected], I would like to discuss with u something i want to know better before coming to germany.

    thanks
    sandy
    Geändert von Brutus (13.12.2013 um 16:17 Uhr)



  4. #4
    Registrierter Benutzer
    Registriert seit
    27.11.2009
    Beiträge
    2
    Zitat Zitat von sandyjh139 Beitrag anzeigen
    Hello Doctor thanks for your kindness to everyone here, my email address is : [email protected], I would like to discuss with u something i want to know better before coming to germany.

    thanks
    sandy
    Dear Dr Vindoco


    I have one question if u could kindly answer, how many months internship someone has to do I mean is it compulsory to do 1 yr internship or is it highly variable depending upon the region of the germany or the country from where u belong to.

    thanks!
    Sandy



  5. #5
    Registrierter Benutzer
    Registriert seit
    20.01.2010
    Beiträge
    3
    Dear all,
    Vidoco wrote a very beautiful text. and it is so correct. I was exactly in the same position. and I got sick from that Institute, it made me frustrated from all those low quality classes.
    also meanwhile I found a job and got rid of Via institute,, but you know what happened? the Institute directore interfered directly with my job and made me loos the job, actually he has nothing to do except calling here and there and making campains arround Germany to twist the system and make all the Doctores being integrated only through his crippled institute!

    so just read his contract very carefully, because it is just a preson!

    wish everyone better luck.



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