PDA

Archiv verlassen und diese Seite im Standarddesign anzeigen : Forschung und Assistenzarzt?



AlexLeo
25.07.2015, 18:31
Hallo, ich würde eine information brauchen. Ist es möglich die facharztausbildung zusammen mit Ph.D?
Danke!

AlexLeo
26.07.2015, 12:35
nein? :(

par
26.07.2015, 14:13
1) Formal: bedenke, in beiden Fällen handelt es sich um "Arbeitsverträge", d.h. du müsstest jmd finden, der bereit ist, einen PhD < 100% einzustellen (wobei das meist sowieso 50/60% Stellen sind, mit Lehrtätigkeit etc. kommt man auf 100%). Eine Einstellung für zB 30% wird vermutlich keiner machen (aus dem Grund 2)); ausserdem muss oft man noch (oft wenige) Kredit Punkte sammeln, wenn es sich um ein reguläres PhD-Programm handelt. (100% FA-Ausbildung und PhD geht nicht, es sei denn der PhD darf 10 Jahre dauern :D). Und natürlich muss dich die Klinik auch für 30, 50% einstellen wollen über viele Monate.

2) Inhaltlich: es ist doch Sinn eines PhD, das wissenschaftliche Arbeiten zu lernen und dabei einer grösseren Fragestellung +/- selbständig nachzugehen; wenn das die erste Erfahrung ist, die man mit wissenschaftlicher Arbeit macht, ist es unabhängig vom Inhalt, was auch nochmal eine Rolle spielt (Experimentiell, Theroetisch, Klinisch, etc) einfach nicht sinnvoll, bzw. den "individuellen Gewinn" an einem PhD kann man gar nicht richtig ausschöpfen.

3) Praktisch: wenn man 1) und 2) ignorieren würde, wäre das eine sehr grosse Belastung, die man sehr gut organisieren müsste, damit man seine Zeit maximal effizient einzuteilen lernt. Man muss extrem durchplanen, damit man die Konzentration innerhalb und ausserhalb der Klinik gleichbleibend aufrecht erhalten kann (i.e. das ist keine Spontanaktion). Aber setzen wir mal maximale Einsatzbereitschaft voraus.

4) Strategisch: der Thread-Titel suggeriert, man könne nur so mit einem PhD mit GLEICHZEITIG
FA-Ausbildung gute Forschung mit Klinik kombinieren machen, das ist aber sicher nicht der Fall.

Insg. würde ich die Entscheidung für einen PhD durchaus bedenken (je nach vielen weiteren Kriterien), aber die Intention von Beginn an (so meinst du das?!) beides zu machen, halte ich für kaum (man soll nie nie sagen) machbar und auch nicht sinnvoll.

Ich hoffe, das hat geholfen. Deine Frage war doch recht allgemein und ungenau gehalten.

AlexLeo
28.07.2015, 16:32
Thank you very much Par for your answer. Sorry, my German is not so good so far, therefore I prefer to reply in English (hoping this won't bother you). If I've understood, doing the PhD during the medical specialization is very difficult, for matter of time and organization. I'm really interested in research, and I've heard that it's possible to do it in the uniklinik. How much is difficult to get in them?
If not with the PhD, are there other ways to do research during the specialization? I've heard about the doktorarbeit, but I don't have idea of what they are, could you explain? Many thanks for your help ;)

par
30.07.2015, 21:38
Dear AlexLeo
I don't want to be "responsible" for you not choosing a PhD at all (always go around and ask many people) :-). All I wanted to point out was, that there above mentioned difficulties to be considered and to be aware of (knowing those will help you focus on the pitfalls during your search for appropriate programs). I know quite a few people holding a MD-PhD and none of them continued their residency training while doing the PhD work (at least for 2 years). Every university hospital does clinical/even basic research and it is actually very common to join one of the research groups (rotations, etc). Sometimes there are collaborations with adjacent institues or abroad. You usually apply to your preferred hospital explaining your intention to become an X with interest in research. You can do a PhD before heading for a clinical career. It all depends on your circumstances, possibilites and expectations.

AlexLeo
31.07.2015, 13:53
Dear Par, thank you again for your answer :) I'm not really interested in the title itself, the only thing that matters is just doing research :) Knowing that it's not so uncommon in uniklinik is relieving. Could you tell me if joining clinical hospitals is extremely competitive (given an extreme good knowledge of German) or possible? Is it also possible to do a doktorarbeit (that, If I'm right, should be less demanding in time than a PhD and can be done together with) during medical residency? Thank again :3

Mondschein
31.07.2015, 16:01
It is possible to do a "Doktorarbeit", that should be no problem. Are you more interessted in clinical or basic research? Clinical research is more easily to be combined with your clinical work. For basic research you might need a break (with a founding or some bosses just provide one research time depending on the hospital). But every Uniklinik will have its own structure and plan how to provide research so just apply and if you are invited for an interview you can talk about your interesst in research and what options they can offer.

Is it competitive? This really depends on the speciality you want to do. Some are more competitive than others.
In general you should be able to speak German to communicate with the patients and do your documentation. I have several collegues from foreign countries. Their German knowledge is not perfect, but really good. They will always have their accent and do some small mistakes, but they are able to work completely independent of others and their medical histories ("Arztbriefe") are quite good. But you can also improve during work!
Did you do any of this language tests? In General for work B2 is recommended so maybe try to reach this level? Some friends of mine did intensive class germen school and their progress is amazing just within some month they reached really good communication levels !

And: If you do an application, please let it check by one native German speaker! Otherwise getting an interview might be harder.

AlexLeo
31.07.2015, 16:36
Danke Mondschein!! I suppose I'm more interested in clinical research, not really sure of that since one of my favourite topics is neuroprosthetics and neurotechnology, therefore I suppose it's something between clinical research and biomedical engineering. You're absolutely right about German, I'm still in med school now, I have 4 years to improve my language skills and I'll try to achieve a b2/c1, even though I know it's difficult. Now that I know doing research in Germany is possible (differently to other countries like mine) I can focus myself better. Thousand thanks,

Alex

par
01.08.2015, 10:49
Are you interested in the programming/hardware or clinical application/optimization part? In the former case I would recommend you to attend at least a master's programm (1-2 years depends on the university/country) in neuromorphic engineering or equivalent fields (as you mentioned already biomedical enginering would also make sense; people come up with new expressions on a monthly basis :-D) because there you receive the training you would never get at hospital (even willing to go for learning by doing), it's a "way of thinking" you should expose yourself to; and (also applying to the former case but might also be of use in the latter) learn how to program.

AlexLeo
01.08.2015, 13:38
Yes I want to learn matlab :) I don't really now for the moment what interests me more, I suppose I want to do research in neuroscience, relatively to neuroprosthetics. I also know some physiologysts, psychiatrists and neurologist/neurosurgeons that make research in this field. In my opinion the programming part of an engineer must start from the research in neurosciences, and it's linked with that. At the end there is the clinical optimization. I am interested in every aspect (also programming), but probably a physician is more involved in step 1 and 3. I'm still confused of what I wanna do precisely at the moment :)

Mephisto1805
03.08.2015, 16:32
Look for a supervisor who was in the US and did her PhD there. They can give you advise whether or not a PhD is a possibility. (There are some very rare programs that allow you to switch every few mobths: e.g. 3 months full time clinic work and three months full time reseach)