Settling as an MD in the US/UK

[B22]

So, I was wondering (out of sheer interest), whether or not it would be possible to "simply" move to the States or the UK with a German medical degree. I haven't even gotten into any universities, so I'm really just curious as to what would be required in terms of licensing, etc, and whether immigrating to the US as a doctor would be easier than immigrating to the US as (for example) someone unemployed.

The English language shouldn't be that much of a problem - I grew up in the US, so I would consider my skills to be adequate for day-to-day patient work.

Have any of you guys studied in Germany and then moved to an english-speaking country?

[sweetashoney]

Well, I am sorry to say but it's not as easy to work in the US as an MD as you might think. First of all, you will have to take all of the US exams (called steps) and do fairly well on them and then try to get into one of the residency programmes (most of them are very competitive and not a lot of non-US citizens do get accepted into one). However, if you have US citizenship (you said that you grew up in the US- were you born there or is one of your parents US citizen which would qualify you to get citizenship?), it would be easier to get into one of the programmes since the hospitals won't have to worry about getting you one of the expensive visas. Good luck ;)

[B22]

I'm not a US citizen and sadly, I wasn't eligible for naturalization because I hadn't reached the age of 18 yet.

It does somewhat surprise me to hear that I would have to retake all exams and enlist in a residency programme. After all, German licensing is quite rigorous and (historically speaking), the States actually modelled their own licensing systems according to the German one.
Would those "steps", and the residency program apply to private practice?

Thanks for replying! =)

[sweetashoney]

no problem at all :) Btw, if you want more information on this topic, I suggest that you might as well read through all of the threads in the "Auslandsforen"(I think it is)- there is even a subforum just for the US ;) I have been on here for a while and know for a fact that there have been a couple of inquiries like yours on there.

The problem with transferring to the US as a German med school graduate is that you can't really compare the med school programmes- in the US you have the 4 year undergrad and then the 4 year med school studies whereas in Germany it's "just" a combined 6 year programme. So, in the end, we don't receive any aquivalent degree to the US graduates (I read somewhere that it's not even that easy to get the MD title since we are not "qualified" for it, neither can we take on the PhD title since the Dr.Arbeit is not comparable to the PhD programmes...). It's all very complicated and I also don't understand the meaning behind it but unfortunately, it's reality. I had thought about taking all of the US exams and going to the US after I graduate also at some point of my studies- however, I thought it wasn't worth paying approx. $6000 in order to take and prepare for the tests when you don't even know if you will get accepted at all. Oh, btw, you will need to get into one of the residency programmes since it's the "Facharztausbildung" and therefore needed in order to work at the hospital or at a general practice. Again, if you do your Facharzt in Germany, it won't be accepted in the US either... but it's the same the other way around: If you go abroad for your residency programme and want to return to Germany afterwards, you will basically have to do the Facharztausbildung again (if you are lucky, maybe you can get some credits towards it).

I hope I was of some help! Don't forget to take a look at the USA subforum- there are a ton of people who have taken the US exams or even study/work in the US. I am sure they can help you if you have more questions ;)

[B22]

Damn, that sounds like a lot of buerocratic load of bull. On one hand, I can understand certain standards in medicine and would certainly hate it if some foreign doctor with a degree in medieval "medicine" were to be allowed to work. But on the other hand, this is Europe and the US, we're talking about. We're not.. that different!

Then again, in Germany, there are also those "Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung" (exam of equal service) for foreign doctors - as far as I know even for EU citizens, but I'm not sure.

So, you're studying in Germany aswell? Where do you come from, originally? =)

[sweetashoney]

I am German :) And right now I am in my second clinical semester (soon to be third... yay, I can see an end ;)) at the university in Giessen. I saw that you are living in or close to Stuttgart- that's awesome! My parents just moved to Karlsruhe about 4 years ago :-top Still need to explore the Baden-Württemberg part, though :)

[alphawelle]

Damn, that sounds like a lot of buerocratic load of bull. On one hand, I can understand certain standards in medicine and would certainly hate it if some foreign doctor with a degree in medieval "medicine" were to be allowed to work. But on the other hand, this is Europe and the US, we're talking about. We're not.. that different!

Then again, in Germany, there are also those "Gleichwertigkeitsprüfung" (exam of equal service) for foreign doctors - as far as I know even for EU citizens, but I'm not sure.

So, you're studying in Germany aswell? Where do you come from, originally? =)

B22, you can find answers to a lot of your Qs on the forums.studentdoctor.net board.

I know that you'd be eligible to work in the UK, providing you have a citizenship of the EU, but you'd have to go through the foundation programme first, and the application process starts early and ends quite a long time before the annual begin.

I suppose you would be able to work in the UK as a licensed German physician as well, given the new EU regulations, but as to whether you'd actually be accepted into a subspeciality training program, I am not sure.

[B22]

@alphawelle Well, asumming that I'd finish my subspeciality training in Germany, that shouldn't be a problem, right? Granted, I don't know the UK countryside, but London has always been a city that fascinated me extremely. But thanks for the link to the studentdoctor board. I'll be sure to check that out when I find the time.

@sweetashoney Alrighty, I totally assumed that you were an American based on your English skills. My bad.. =) But seriously though, with your language skills you shouldn't have a problem settling in an english-speaking country.

[flavour]

A lot of people are trying to do the same. So I would:
(1) take the USMLE steps and score high
(2) spend most of your clerkships/electives and maybe part of your fourth year over there
(3) get to know people

After talking to some residency program directors over here I realized that there is a big difference between being just a name & a number and them getting to know you while you've been working with them for a month or so.

But to really pull it off, you will need insane motivation whereas people around you in Germany will basically think "why the f**k is he doin this?".

[jijichu]

I am German :) And right now I am in my second clinical semester (soon to be third... yay, I can see an end ;)) at the university in Giessen. I saw that you are living in or close to Stuttgart- that's awesome! My parents just moved to Karlsruhe about 4 years ago :-top Still need to explore the Baden-Württemberg part, though :)

Karlsruhe is awesome! I grew up there and I think it is absolutely fantastic (albeit there arent many places that you can go out to - but if you are there I'd recommend 'Brazil' :-) )

What you need to consider when you go to the UK to work is, that you will be a fully approbated practitioner, whereas the UK students need to do their F1 and F2 years. That could be a problem when you apply for a speciality training.
Also, as the UK has changed the selection process within the UK medicine graduates (high point scores --> placement in London and other high prestige places although some universities that only begun to offer medicine and their exams are considered easier, those will still compete with universities such as Imperial, Oxbridge etc. ), you might face some difficulties actually getting a place in London. Depending on what speciality you are interested in, I'd recomend Brighton, its a beautiful city :-)