Help Me Guy's For Medical Residency In Germany

[dranand_21]

Dear Coxy-Baby
Thank you for the help. I have started with my german language 1 week. And as i am a final year student of medical university, Still i am having 10 month's in hand. So i planed not to waste those days but study "intensively" German. I have already start attending special classes for this reason. I hope which will help. And i am ready for hard work. Till that i have one request will you please speak with me in English and co-operete me. Help me!
will 10 month enough to get normal language on tounge?
Thank you.! ( by the way my Question is how to get place for "Internship" in Germany?)

[Michael72]

I think you should contact either the "Deutscher Akademischer Austausch Dienst" ( http://www.daad.ru ) or the "Deutsches Zentrum" at Kazan State University ( http://www.ksu.ru/dz/index.php ) they should be able to answer all of your questions. Both of these addresses are easily found via Google, btw.

[dranand_21]

Dear Michael,
Thank you for info. I have already been there, 1 year back. (When i start to explore about Med. residency in Germany). There i have meet with a German guy called Mr. Thilo Zinker who is representetive of DAAD here in kazan. He said there is no program from DAAD for Med. residency! But he is now very good friend of mine and help's me by lot of ways. Anyway if there anything else to tell me and help, then i am really witing for your valueable Answer.

Thank you

[Coxy-Baby]

Dear Coxy-Baby
Thank you for the help. I have started with my german language 1 week. And as i am a final year student of medical university, Still i am having 10 month's in hand. So i planed not to waste those days but study "intensively" German. I have already start attending special classes for this reason. I hope which will help. And i am ready for hard work. Till that i have one request will you please speak with me in English and co-operete me. Help me!
will 10 month enough to get normal language on tounge?
Thank you.! ( by the way my Question is how to get place for "Internship" in Germany?)

SO here are two links in GERMAN, so take a bloody dictionary and translate it:
http://www.bundesaerztekammer.de/page.asp?his=0.111.3349.3350.3374
It's the adress of our "Bundesärztekammer" the page with the question "i'm
a md, i'm not european and i don't get my diploma inside of the eu"
The excerpt:
1. You'll have to get a job ->"Yes we will hire YOU" on paper
2. You'll have to speak GERMAN fluidly and even medical german
3. With alle the diplomas you have you can try to get a work permit
at the "Oberste Landesbehörde für Gesundheitsberufe" the adresses and
phone numbers are here: http://www.bundesaerztekammer.de/page.asp?his=1.109.3357.3365 so call or write them!
4. You will probably have to pass an equalitytest...

Good luck and bye

[dranand_21]

Ok dear, I will take bloody dictionary and translate! But now a days who use dictionry there are online so many facilities like online translation of web-site, better i will do that. What u say?Thank you, for referance web-site. Which i have already done, that was my very friest step toword internate search, but Thank you for helping me and understanding my language barrier.

[Coxy-Baby]

So let's face the truth, unless your are able to talk/write in good german, you will not get one damn step closer to germany.u started learning German last week and you think about ten month will be sufficient for working as a resident in Germany with real patients....
The last Russian MD i saw was an about 35 years old woman, she had to repeat her last
year (practical year) and had to pass our medical exam....

Welcome to Fairy Land.

btw: Translate words with a dictionary would improve your german, or will you gonne
use same translate-pc later if you work with patients..... like S. Hawking
or try to translate:" Unsere Medikamenten-Waschzettel sind übrigens in Hochdeutsch geschrieben, auf einem handgeschöptem Büttenpapier"

Live long and prosper

[dranand_21]

Dear, Coxy-Baby
Thank you, and i do agree with you! but i don't understand what you want to say??? 10 months are not enough? but when i enquiry with "Goethe Institute" about B2 level corse, they told me may be 10 month is enough! And as i understood that B2 level is a criteria for the Medical Residency Program.
And if you telling me about a Russian (lady):-wow doc. my case and her case is different! I don't know why that much late she came there and may be she don't know english or any of background. As i am learning German, my English and Russian language knowledge both are helping me to get fast on German! (because English and Russian help me by some ways) and i have already prove my language skill with Russian (Which was one of hard language from europe and when i came from India i don't know anything about it, but i am not bad with Russian) So it is my confidence ( :-) not over) that, somehow i will manage with German too! Because i like German language as well my profession is suppose to belong with.
And yes, I am totally agree with you about use of dictionary, that can be trick to learn any language. One has to increese there vocabulary! Anyway Thank's alot...! I am bit positive with German language and bit sirius too! what you say..? ;-)

[horsedoc]

Dear dranard, my two cents about the German language: a friend of mine, he´s a spaniard, is fluent not only in Spanish but French, English and Italian as well. He´s currently trying to master the German language, incidentally at the Goethe institute as well, and is telling me that German is the most difficult language he´s come across as yet. As I understand ist´s in parts the Grammar that doesn´t seem to follow any of the other languages he´s familiar with, the irregular verbs and the pronounciation. He still has great difficulty in following a conversation spoken in normal speed, after over 3 years in the country.
Furthermore there are a lot of variaties in language within the country, when I visit Bavaria e.g., I´m having problems to understand the "natives" as well-
I wish you all the luck in the world but I do agree with coxy-baby in 10 month being to short a time to learn the German language sufficient to practise as a doctor
Regards
horsedoc

[dranand_21]

DEAR, horsedoc;

POINT TO BE NOTED. THANK YOU.


Dear dranard, my two cents about the German language: a friend of mine, he´s a spaniard, is fluent not only in Spanish but French, English and Italian as well. He´s currently trying to master the German language, incidentally at the Goethe institute as well, and is telling me that German is the most difficult language he´s come across as yet. As I understand ist´s in parts the Grammar that doesn´t seem to follow any of the other languages he´s familiar with, the irregular verbs and the pronounciation. He still has great difficulty in following a conversation spoken in normal speed, after over 3 years in the country.
Furthermore there are a lot of variaties in language within the country, when I visit Bavaria e.g., I´m having problems to understand the "natives" as well-
I wish you all the luck in the world but I do agree with coxy-baby in 10 month being to short a time to learn the German language sufficient to practise as a doctor
Regards
horsedoc[/QUOTE]

[Vidoco]

This Guide in principle is for medical students and Physicians who finish their study of Medicine in non-EU Countries who wish to work and do post-graduate Degree in Germany and based solely on my personal experience as MD graduated from Iraq,that is why it could be not suitable for everyone but may be beneficial.
1- The Language
the German Language is very difficult one, even if you have the capabilities to master English or French,still German language is difficult and one of the reasons is the big difference between spoken and written daily usage of the language,you should be very talented to acquire good level(B2) to work as Doctor.I get level B2 in 10 months. but to be competent in communication skills and understanding (some Dialect) you need more than this.
personally i live in Germany since 02.02.2008 but still after nearly 20 months feels sometime difficulties when it comes to writing or documentation in work,so before everything else you should learn the Language efficiently before thinking in working in Germany.
you should also learn the Medical German Language because the pronunciation and writing in work is little bit different from English or other Languages.
There are many ways to learn the languages in addition to books and school and give you some tips:
a- try to watch some German TV series with subtitle in German(through Teletext) you will learn many words in short time and also learn how the German communicate with each others.:-music
b- get a German girlfriend.[-::-]
c- think German: try to reset your Brain-HD to think like a German :-((and be full confident of yourself even if you make mistakes at beginning
use any method to learn the language very fast because its the only difference between you and a German Doctor,and when you will be able to master the language there will be no one could make a comment on your communication skills rather than your work.:-meinung
in the next parts I will talk about my personal experience and impression about German medical authorities,German medical License , German medical system, Colleagues in work, the mentality of some German Doctors and their attitude against non-EU medical Doctors some Private institutes which teach integration for doctors from outside Germany and many more...So Stay in Touch and watch my subsequent parts in this Guide.


Doctors will have more lives to answer for in the next world than even we generals.
Napoleon Bonaparte

[Hedijeh]

:-top Level B2 in only ten months ? How did you master in such a short time ?
I am curious to read the second part of your guide, especially about your experience with private institutes.

[Vidoco]

Guide to work as MD in Germany.Part 2
First I am sorry the second part of this Guide is little bit late because of personal circumstances so I will keep writing the rest of this Guide and i wish it will be ended before 1-1-2010.
As I write in the first part after you finish B2 level in Language in Goethe Institute or in any other institute (Euro-schule..FHS etc) you need to master German medical language which need about 15 days and there is wonderful book called(Medizinische Fachsprache leicht gemacht) it’s very cheap and very beneficial and I used personally and you could buy it from Amazon website and its intended for Physicians who studied medicine in English.
Once you feel that your capabilities in language is good regarding Verbal communication and you are able to express yourself clearly and you could use the German medical terms in average way(still you could use sometimes in matter of difficulty English medical terms then you are fit for the next step.

You should start to read about German medical system…there is a lot of articles in English in Wikipedia which throw very good spotlight about this issue like:
1-Medical Insurance
2-types of hospitals
3-medical hierarchy
4-medical specialization
5-Hospital finance
You could also postpone these information later if you do not have enough time.
Once you have the legal status to stay In Germany whether Through marriage, Asylum , immigration or a Study exchange program then you should contact (Landesgesundheitsamt)Depend on where you live, In which state in Germany( there are16 State) and get information about the requirement to get a permission which is usually limited to work as( Arzt) it’s called beruf-erlaubnis and it’s different from Arbeit erlaubnis, and there are many differences between each state in Germany.
For example I live in Baden-Württemberg and its considered to be one of difficult states of Germany because the requirement to work, that you should be examined in one of Universities in 4 main branches in Medicine (Internal Medicine and Surgery (obligatory) and two additional branch) in my case Pathology and Pharmacology but some time you my get Medical chemistry or Medical statics
And this is called Gleichwertigskeitprüfumg.
In some other states like Bayern for example you do not need to do this examination,it depends on the official person who will decide to give you this permission or not and there are no guidelines for these officials to decide which one deserve permission based on his medical qualification and which one do not deserve because he or she lacks the equivalent German medical Standard.
Still a lot of doctors who finish their study outside EU choose to settle in Bayern:-nix because it’s easy way to get work there in Rehabilitation Centrum:-sleppy or elsewhere because of fear from the examination (you have only 2-time chance to perform this examination, and if you failed you will never be able to work in Germany as M.D) personally I prefer the BW system:-meinung because if you pass this exam you will be equal to any M.D graduated from German Medical university.:-stud
Still in Bayern you need to do this examination in order to get approbation to get unlimited permission to work for life as M.D and this also applied to all other states in Germany.
I will write complete chapter about how to prepare yourself for this examination optimally but for now I will write about my biggest failure which cost me 6 month:-kotz medical doctors to Germany delay before I get my first Job and this is the private Institute to prepare and integrate immigrating
It always seems impossible until it’s done.
Nelson Mandela (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/n/nelsonmand378967.html)

[Vidoco]

This part is about my personal experience in private institute which offer service like integration and preparing Non-EU MD to find their way to work in the medical field in Germany as physicians, Surgeon, nurses or pharmacist etc…
This is absloute personal experience
In 2008 after finishing 3 months non-paid work as( Gast-Arzt in Chirurgie in MVZ in BW) and in order to prepare myself for the Gleichwertigskeit Prüfung , I started to look for private institute to develop my language communication skills and better understanding of the medical German system and after short surfing in internet, I found 2 institute:
1-http://www.mibeg.de/ in Sachsenring 37–39
50677 Köln

2-http://www.via-institut.de/ in Nürnberg
I read both websites and all information and services they offer, and then I ask some people about both institutes and mostly they recommend mibeg in Köln.
Still I take the stupid decision to go to Nürnberg why?
a-Because I have 2 sisters who live in Nürnberg and both offer me accommodation and free hot meals, and all the 5 stars service for hotels. (Mama-Hotel)
b-I was mistaken because I thought that since both institute are licensed from government in each state then there will be no difference in the standard of education and that was completely wrong.
So I choose the Via-institute based on these 2 facts. I send E-mail to the Institute Director about my request to join his Institute and he replied very nicely and send me all information through E-mail and invite me to a meeting with other students from different nationalities for Info-tag(information day) before the beginning of course which consist of 2 modules
(2month plus 3 months) you could see the information on his website.
I contact the work-Agent in my region (Arbeit-Agentur) and they were very nice and they accept to finance all the cost of the private institute whatever I choose in order to get a job as (Arzt) as soon as possible although I do not receive any financial support from the German authorities and they pay all the financial requirement to the institute and the study begin.
The first Module 2 months:
About 30 students from 7 nationalities with different level of language skills and different medical standard in small room equipped with a beamer which is most of the time is defected and an old notebook belong to the Ice Age:-kotz.
The lectures divided between German medical language, German language, and how to write your C.V and how to apply for a Job.
For the German medical language it was very primitive non structural and waste of time for nothing:-sleppy you could substitute it with the book for German medical language which I mentioned it in Part 2 of this Guide and I am sure every normal average physician could master the whole German medical language in matter of 2 weeks if he read the book for 2 hours a day.
The German language lecture (in which the institute offer the ability to prepare for B2 level)
Was one of the worst I ever had:-kotz, I learned the language in what is called (volkshochschule) VHS and I get B1 levelbefore I joined the Institute and it was 100 times better than the lectures in this institute.
The worst part was how to write CV and how to apply for Job and the strategy in applying for job and the job interview etc…
The director of institute used about 20% of the time in both modules (5 months everyday approximatly 8 hours ) to give us lectures about this theme although to get a medical job in Germany is very easy if you are qualified enough and have similar standard to German doctors and there are many readymade formula which you could easily modified it to fit your individual case(i did it personally and get a job from the first interview), it was more than 80 hours of talk, and the reason for this lengthy lectures was not because it’s so difficult but because it was just time filling procedure because hiring a professional medical lecturer in the important fields(like Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics and Gynecology..etc) which you will need it in your preparation for the Exam or start work will cost the institute more money and at end it will decrease the income of institute:-heul.
And you could imagine 80 hours for what is called CV writing, job application and 4 hours only 4 hours for Gynecology and may be less as I remember.
More than 90 % of us as students regarding the fee of institute was paid by work-agent which means we did not pay any cent for the institute personally (including me) but still its painful not only regarding the money but also the time I wasted personally in this institute and the problem I realized these facts only after I was engaged in the second module.
I understand every learning process (although I came from a Third world country) as process of active opinion exchange when it comes to positive criticism between the students and the lecturer.
In the case of institute director it was very different, he takes a very criticism personally and he will not response friendly when someone ask him question like I ask him one day when he was talking about how successful his institute is , if he has statistics regarding this matter? because as he mentioned that he supply many hospitals with doctors who graduated from his institute, he tries to escape the answer but I insist if he has a numbers…numbers(cause I believe in numbers) he react angrily and change the subject.
One of the shocking thing which happened to me and may be to other students that one of the lecturer bring her Dog with to the lecture room:-)), it was a nice dog:-angel and personally I like dogs but not in the lecture room, Do you believe it???
It will give you an example about how serious some lecturers!!!!
But to be Objective there were 4 lecturers although they have may be only 12 hours, they were nice and competent.
the second module was also not very good as he promise and personally I started not to attend the rest of his lectures about CV writing…also I did not go with groups where he often used one whole day to make a trip to the old city of Nürnberg:-party , visiting Reha-Centrum:-sleppy
Or visiting Pharma-industery:-music… etc waste of time.
Naturally all (except one for personal reason)of us graduated from his institute, no one could not pass both exams in both modules and the question is how many of us will be able to pass the (Gleichwertigskeitprüfung)and how many will get works and when? I do not know!!!
Personally I was successfully pass the Gleichwertigskeitprüfung after the end of the VIA course in 1 month and I did not get any benefit from the course when I estimate the time which I spend it in this course, and I am only thankful for these 4 lecturers because I get from them in 12 hours which is more worth than approximately 600 hours of nothing.
My advice is : I do not recommend this institute for any non EU or even EU medical doctors who wish to prepare himself to work as doctor in Germany.
P.S if you need further information about my personal experience in this institute feel free to mail me
I will write a complete article about this institute in Arabic, German and Russian languages for other colleagues who do not understand English.
And I will ask my 2 friends to inform me about mibeg institute in köln because they have both a positive experience about it, then they could help.

one last thing if someone did not study medicine or health science , I do not believe he or she will be able to run any institue teaching medicine or anything close to medicine.
“Medicine makes people ill, mathematics makes them sad, and theology makes them sinful”;-)

Martin Luther

[VIA_Wahrheit]

I traveled to Nürnberg to participate in a course for Doctors integration at VIA institut! :-))
so I would like to give some feed back to those who like to participate in that class!

my expectation from the class where preperation for the "Gleichwerichkeit" exam to get a licence to practice medicin! also at the information day Dr. Klug "the institute manager" told us that they will find us places to do our "Praktikum".:-angel

well after all these offers that any forign doctor in germany will dream about, we were "me and other collegues" so motivated and prepared ourselves for the course and making it the most absolute and first priority!
for that one would need "Bildungsgutschein" with will be issued in the "Agentur für Arbeit" which can be quite difficult. about me after some obstacles with a help of my partner i could get it finally!
"Bildungsgutschein" is a certificate that finances the class and pay your rent and travel cousts plut 130€ as a pocket money!

The start:
The Institute head opened the class and welcomed us, then slowly the lectures starte as well as the problems!
it was fine to learn some academical terminologys and review medicin in German.
but unfortunatly:
1. the class progress so slow.
2. 90% of the participants are Russians, and it is like some sort of a communist comunity with there sad frustrated face, horrible accent and very basic limited German knowladge!
3. at the breaks they speek Russian and makes you feel totally detached from the world and as if i was in a village close to cyberia!
4. when the teaches asks, nobody replys or all replys like 1st year children classroom.
5. usually those russians are not answering because they are affraid if someone gets the informations they know! just like there communism and dictatorship!
6. all of a sudden comes the Module I exam! which is so unrepresentativ! 5 or 3 question from each subject and if you don't know one, you will loose lots of marks.
7. well! the certificate of that institute is not valid anywhere! nobody looks at it in any hospital at your application,, so don't worry about bad grades or not getting it.
8. what is funny about it is that the Institute head makes a lot of fuss out of it and if you have less than "note 2" he makes you feel stupid! but don't give a shit!
9. some Russians got the highest marks, although they cannot make a correct sentence in German! as if the exam was not in German language! funny! and fishy! isn't it?
10. the rumors said that they were somehow aware of the questions from asking other russians from the previous courses! and as the exam contents didn't change that much and the russians are allways in there own community! makes these rumors logic!

Module II
1. so low quality teaching! like a boaring retired doctor comes with some powerpoint pages and reading them in a dark room, and makes you sleep
2. even the subjects are so outdated and unrelevant.
3. the duty our is until approx. 17:00 every day! after that one will be so tired and have no any desire to read something home in peace! so it is a complete wast of time!
4. the regulations for absence are so strange like it is for kindergaden! you have to call the institute the morning that you don't want to go to the class and fake a sickness! any other reason will not be accepted, if you don't do, you will get a written worning, and 3 worning makes you according to there contract loos the class, one will be thrownout from the class and must pay the rest of the money from your pocket, because "AA" will stop the fund! ;-)

[VIA_Wahrheit]

More Information about my experience in The Institute.:-???

as What is written in the VIA Institute Contract, one can apply for a job and drop the class if he was accepted. sounds nice and encouraging !
but that is a total Bulshit!
because:
1. All applications must go throught the Institute Head, if not, you will be punished when he finds out about it! "clear in the contract"
2. once you have the job, 2 weeks before you drop the class , you have to give a copy of your work contract to the Institute Head.

and do you know what are the concequences?
HE WILL DO ANYTHING TO MAKE YOU LOOS THE JOB; BECAUSE IF YOU DROP THE CLASS; AA IS NOT PAYING HIM ANYMORE; THEN HE LOOSES MONEY: AND HE NEVER LET THAT HAPPENS.

it happened to me exactly the same! :-wand
I had a written contract from a hospital, he called by saying " my Berufserlaubnis is not approbation, and I have the right to work just within the "Anpassungszeit" "unter Aufsicht"
and ofcourse the HR department don't want any trouble with anything! .. the withdrew a signed contract from me! :-heul
and he called them "unter Vertaulichkeit" but despite that the told me that the Institute Head called to say that.

and he made sure also to make me loos the "PRAKTIKUM" that I prepared in another hospital.

But finally now I am out of that GARBAGE enviroment. :-kotzand I am free to apply.

so PEOPLE Be careful what you are signing with thos e Private Institutes. they are just Godless Pigs.
I made a HUGE mistake going there... any one can read alone some books, and go to unpayed work in any Hospital.. they all welcome that.:-top

[opthys]

hi;

can you write more about this exam in BW? how to get prepared and what is included in the exam?how many books should we read,the whole medicine or german or what?and what are they asking and what they want from you?

thanks.

[r.ghazi]

Dear Vidoco, can you please send your email address for me? My email is [email protected]. it would be great if you help me for finding the answers of my questions regarding finding a medical residendy position in Geramany.

[dmaritza]

Hallo Vidoco, can you please send your email address for me? My email is [email protected] live in Stuttgart right now and i am preparing myself for this exam so can you write more about this exam in BW? how to get prepared and what is included in the exam?how many books should we read,the whole medicine or german or what?and what are they asking and what they want from you?

Thanks

[Swathireddy]

Hello
My name is swathi reddy and and im an Indian doctor.im searching for all the information required to work here in germany.can you please send me ur email address.my email address is [email protected]

[Swathireddy]

Hello vidoco and via_wahrheit
My name is swathi reddy and and im an Indian doctor.im searching for all the information required to work here in germany.can you please send me ur email address.my email address is [email protected]